Alive conversation - pages 11-17
The text of the programme “Consciousness and Personality. From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive” under the editorship of Anastasia Novykh. (Note, the abbreviations used in the text: presenter Tatiana – T; Igor Mikhailovich Danilov – IM; Zhanna – Zh; Volodya – V; Andrey – A).
00:37:33 - 00:58:58
IM: ...Who opposes? Consciousness opposes. We have already discussed that consciousness is always opposing everything that is connected with the other world, meaning with the Divine World. Why? Because the way there is closed for the consciousness and this is scary for it, that's why such problems arise.
T: That is, during the life of the Prophet, he was not always understood.
IM: He was understood by those who aspired to God. And those who lived by the laws of matter, those who aspired to power, simply used his Teaching in order to create, let's say, their own directions and certain manipulative schools. These are people who direct the power of their attention not to the right place and live according to the laws of consciousness.
T: Igor Mikhailovich, so, to start the spiritual path from, perhaps, the first contact with God to the life in the Spiritual world, some instruments are needed. For some, these instruments are prayer and meditative techniques. And this has been so at all times, from antiquity to modern religions. In that same philosophy, you can find a lot... The same Plato, who was looking in Egypt for some kind of mystical...
IM: But he was not looking for the way to God. He was looking for means of manipulation...
(Editor’s note: the light went out in the studio).
IM: Yes, well, you see, the light was turned off. The system is always against telling the truth, it initiates something. That's, in principle, all the magic coming from it... So we have stopped on Plato. Plato was not looking for the way to God, he was looking for the means of manipulation – for magic, nothing more.
T: And those people who are really looking for the way to God? Here again, I return to the fact that each religion offers its own instruments: meditations, prayers...
IM: But this is due to the fact that, again, there are traditions, depending on what was acceptable. Somewhere, they use meditative practices more, somewhere prayers practices. But in fact, everyone is striving to cognize perception by feelings. So about the prayer states, we have already said in one of the programmes that Jesus' prayer is the achievement of perception by feelings.
There are also mantras. This is, in principle, the same prayer, where the same words are repeated for a long time in order to evoke in the beginning an associative, and then a really true deepest feeling. Also, some meditations are aimed at comprehension of organizing one's own consciousness. Later on, they switched to spiritual practices in order to cognize the path itself or perception by feelings. All of this is called the spiritual path, that's namely the spiritual path, i.e. when the person strives... The difference in all these instruments is great, in principle, but the essence, what they are focused on is one, in general. Although, if we look at more ancient schools, everything was simple.
From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive.
IM: What leads to God? Naturally, the path to God is through spiritual practice. But again, what can be called a spiritual practice? Well, everything: autogenic training can be called a spiritual practice and meditation can be, and prayer – this is the spiritual practice, this is the work on yourself in cognizing the Spiritual World.
Some people progress very easily and quickly. That means they are capable of realizing the very essence of this process and very quickly shift to perception by feelings. But this is... let's say, a bit complicated. That is, if we take a group, well, out of a thousand – there is one in the best case scenario. And the rest, if they are striving, if they have such a need, will have to go a longer way, which has been tested through the millennia – this is the autogenic training, the meditative practice. But the approach should be serious, like to an instrument. And afterwards already, there will be spiritual practices. This is not such a difficult path, and it does not take too much time if you work hard and really strive for it. But there is also a little problem in the fact that people do not want to do this. Consciousness hinders them. They will not even do the autogenic training properly, but they will talk and wish.
From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive.
IM: We talked about the stages of a person who feels an inner need, but can not cope with his consciousness and the like. What is needed? From time immemorial, there was a well-developed formula: in modern terms, it is autogenic training, meditation, and spiritual practice. Before, the autogenic training was called differently. There was a lot of fiction made up by people in it. But thanks to Schultz, who eliminated all the made-up philosophy, all the metaphysics that was previously given to common autogenic training ... He eliminated it and derived an ordinary formula for self-suggestion, and that's it. That is, the work on your body by means of your consciousness. But this was just the first basic step.
The second stage is meditative practice. This is when the work goes on with your consciousness, with the help of it you learn both consciousness and more complex techniques of the autogenic training (this is precisely the work with chakrans and everything else). These practices boiled down to what? It is a more perfected autogenic training, but nothing more. So, in auto-training, work on your body with the help of consciousness happens. That is, a person learns to apply his attention correctly, redirect his attention correctly, focusing on a specific area of his body. And thus he cut off or suspended the flow of thoughts in his head. Meaning, he chose only what he needed.
Later in meditative practice, it is more work by consciousness with one's consciousness. Meaning, a person taught discipline to his consciousness. And, of course, work with the body in the first stages. In practice, this is that same auto-training, only the sensing and feeling of energy flows were added, the work of the chakrans and the like. By and large, this is auto-training. This is nothing other than a meditative practice.
Spiritual practice is a purely spiritual practice, the consciousness has nothing to do with it, this is perception by feelings. There is a transitory... the altered states of consciousness. What are the altered states of consciousness? These are forms of consciousness. It is the same consciousness, but with a changed perception. But this is not the freedom of the Personality.
T: That is, the altered state of consciousness is simply a change in frequency, for example...
IM: ... The autogenic training, meditation, hypnosis, and different things. These are all the instruments of consciousness and nothing more. The spiritual practice, for understanding, is beyond the capacity of consciousness.
If we speak the language of physics, our consciousness works actively in three-dimensionality. It can cover up to the sixth dimension. It can not work higher. The highest magic, it all happens just at the level of the sixth dimension, when through consciousness, with the help of suggestions, using additional forces, a person can influence this world or other people. It's not a secret, it's been this way since time immemorial. But it can not go above the sixth because there the influence of the Spiritual World already begins.
Spiritual practice is not a disconnection of consciousness. If you turn off consciousness, you stop perceiving the three-dimensional world. Without consciousness, you will never perceive it. Consciousness is the intermediary between the Personality and this world. Thanks to the consciousness, you communicate, you see, you feel, get upset, or enjoy this world - you live in it or you exist in it, let's put it this way, everyone chooses for themselves different ways. But consciousness is a necessary instrument for communication in three-dimensionality. That is why spiritual practice is not a deactivation of consciousness, it is the exit of a Personality beyond those limits within which consciousness can function.
Spiritual practice is the exit of the Personality
beyond those limits
within which consciousness can function.
IM: And the third stage is a purely spiritual practice when a person already realizes that he is a Personality. And when a person had already mastered this, he began to finally understand and realize that he is a Personality, that he is becoming one who can control his consciousness, who can choose thoughts that are offered to him: sift some, perceive others. The process became manageable, and then the perception by feelings came, meaning, he understood that he is who he is. And he would already redirect the power of his attention precisely to the perception by feelings of the Spiritual World within himself. Not a search somewhere in the outer, but an internal one. Ultimately, this led, naturally, to the discovery, as they used to say, of great secrets. But who said? Consciousness told people that here: "You can not comprehend because this is a great mystery... without a teacher or someone else. You need to meditate for twenty years, and only then move on to spiritual practice."
In reality, everything is simple. But again, the realization that a person is a Personality and he is not a consciousness, but he is just, as we have already analyzed, a viewer in the theatre of shadows, this comes gradually. For some, it is very fast, but those are very few. But most of the time, it happens slowly and in stages, and people often get confused. Consciousness often gets in the way, tells them: "No, it's not so... That will not work". People habitually start listening and they fail. But those who really strive for God, who really seek to know, they cognize easily and quickly.
T: That is, a person learns spiritual practice already with the help of the deepest feelings...
IM: Spiritual practice is performed by the deepest feelings, but it’s not performed with the help of the consciousness. Skeptics and enthusiasts of seeking confirmation, i.e., those unwilling to cognize themselves, but looking for confirmation: "And who talked about this?". Such citizens can freely look through the history of those same spiritual elders, the people who have achieved, and they will see how those elders described their Spiritual experience of the Spiritual World cognition. What is needed during the performance of prayer or meditation? To dismiss any thought, any emotion: whether it's good or bad. It means, everything that comes from the mind is rejected, and you cognize the Spiritual World only by the feelings. No matter what anyone says – that is the only way because the consciousness can not perceive the Spiritual World. It's like fire and water, well, it's obvious that they are incompatible.
A great many people made this way. But the consciousness of some viewers may also become outraged now: "Why are they sitting, telling” – and so on. – The Holy Fathers never did autogenic training, they did not do any meditations. They prayed and perceived." Of course, they perceived. But if we remove all the glitter, then what remains? Mantra remains. Well, prayer, mantra is the repetition of the same thing in order to reach a prayerful state. This prayerful state is precisely perception by feelings. And then, gradually, developing it, they perceived the Spiritual World. But I would ask those who argue with us from the other side of the screen: "How many holy fathers have really perceived this?" Only a few of them. But out of those who wrote about this (we take and open the scripture and look at the human word, even if it is written down in signs), it is easy to see who and what perceived, and who copied from whom in order to achieve significance. But again, why why does this happen? Imitation, the desire to seem, but not to be and so on.
But, in reality, all the religions are united. God is one, and everyone goes through this. It is impossible to come to God in any other way than through yourself, by rejecting the consciousness and perceiving God.
Any, even the slightest thought during the prayer, negates the whole prayer, doesn't it? It does. Who did not talk about it? Only those who do not understand this, who kept talking from the mind. It is necessary to knock with heart. But again, what kind of expression is "to knock with heart"? This does not mean ... The heart is an organ. It was all a metaphor in fact. This was just mentioned about perception by feelings, because the sense of love, feelings, and the like were attributed to the heart as an organ. And God is happiness, God is Love. The Spiritual world is first of all ... The one who understood the last programme, he knows what is it. And the rest have to fight with the mind, it's pointless to tell them simply because we won't find words, it is not because they are unable to perceive it, let them not take offence. No matter how I describe it, it will still be a repetition of the same words, everything will be reduced to the banal: love, happiness, joy, infinity, well ... all words that narrow the reality.
T: That means that the dialogue of man, a Personality, with God happens exactly…
IM: …by means of perception with feelings. And the spiritual practice is an instrument. Prayer and meditation are not the instruments of communion, these are instruments of achieving communion. This is a key, let’s put it this way, from the door, behind which lies the Boundless World. You just need to learn how to use it, turn in the right direction, and not to be too lazy to open the door. And it would be even better to remove the door and not close it.
T: Igor Mikhailovich, in order for a person to develop perception by feelings, should he start with the autogenic training?
IM: A person can start with whatever he wants. Every religion has its basics, has experience of its wise men. But if a contemporary person really wants and he strives, it is much easier to use commonplace simple things that will really help a person to get where he is striving for in the shortest period of time.
T: Igor Mikhailovich, so the autogenic training… what is the correct way to do it? Very often, people, when relaxing, say this affirmation that “I am not a body. I am not a consciousness. I am a Personality. I control the body and the consciousness. I am a spirit.”
IM: People make similar mistakes very often. Why? Because in psychology it’s described that you suggest to yourself “I am brave,” “I am not afraid”... It is exactly this principle that the autogenic training is based upon - it’s banal autosuggestion.
Consciousness indeed starts to work already according to this program. But if a person suggests to himself that “I am not a consciousness, I am a spirit”, then consciousness will adapt and will tell him “You are already a spirit, there is nothing else you need, come on… You are already a saint or an angel, whatever you want, depending on the religion, it will call it accordingly. -What did you want? To cognize God? Here you go… here are the images of Him.”
And it will show God…it will draw Him in three-dimensionality. And a person will communicate with that God, or whoever else, with bearded saints, who will come to him, sit and talk just like we are now. Just like that, he will see it and will say “Now, this is a meditation! This is great! This is serious!” or “Now, this is an autogenic training!”
One must become spirit and not just keep talking about it.
One must become spirit and not just keep talking about it.
IM: One must become spirit and not just keep talking about it. You should not by means of your consciousness persuade your consciousness, persuade yourself, using, yet again, your consciousness and its directives, because these are exactly the directives from the consciousness over Personality. Do you remember we’ve talked about the “actors” and the viewer?
So, when the Personality is a viewer, then the “actors” are exactly the consciousness. So they split up and tell… they tell it to each other: “You are spirit, you are spirit! You have already cognized everything. Look how beautiful”. And then it transforms immediately, like a demon, into any saint or someone else, doesn’t matter who. And what have true holy fathers talked about? That whoever appears in front of you in an image… human one… drive him away, because it is a demon. And many have misunderstood “How?! It is… a sin, it is... it is for me they’ve appeared...” Never will anyone appear in three-dimensionality. In three-dimensionality, there are people and demons.
IM: We have already talked about “actors” on stage, about the images they show. Why? Because by causing a strong emotion in you, you will direct your attention to it. And the brighter the image, the more attention is paid. And this is the financing for the “actors.”
We have already talked about this, everything is simple. And here are the same “actors,” who… a fat huge guy is portraying some thin, excuse me, blade of grass. But he is portraying it and imposing it on you. But you do see that it is a contradiction. And so does a Personality feel this contradiction and these substitutions. And it wants and strives, exactly the same as you would strive into the yard to see that very blade of grass and not the fat guy portraying it, right? Because a Personality is in a deep darkness until it gains “spiritual vision, spiritual hearing” (there is such an expression, it’s good) when it sees reality. And until it gains it, it’s like a child, sitting in the audience and listening to everything it is told. Just like that.
But outside this theatre of absurdity, there is a huge world. And the only one from this theatre who is able to come in contact with the Spiritual World – it is you as a viewer, meaning the Personality. When a Personality comes outside the door, as a viewer, it loses its “actors.” Why would it need clowns when there is Something Real? Why look at the illusion when there is reality? Why cling to the temporary when there is Eternity?