Alive conversation - pages 131-142

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CONSCIOUSNESS AND PERSONALITY - text version under the editorship of Anastasia Novykh (PDF)

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Transcripts of the video “Consciousness and Personality. From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive”
under the editorship of Anastasia Novykh.

(Note, the abbreviations used in the text: presenter Tatiana – T; Igor Mikhailovich Danilov – IM; Zhanna – Zh; Volodya – V; Andrey – A).

 

Alive conversation

FROM THE INEVITABLY DEAD TO THE ETERNALLY ALIVE.
 CONSCIOUSNESS AND PERSONALITY

 

07:56:40 – 08:34:48

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IM: The world is diverse, but the system has very few patterns. So, actually, "the system is attacking," that is, what does it mean? Thoughts come, all kinds of distractions come (literally the same thing), after all, they are patterns, right? But the practical examples – now, this is what’s interesting…

T: Yes, that is absolutely right. When people share their experience – it, of course, enriches one with certain understandings at the current stage of the spiritual path. It gives one an opportunity to learn more about the tricks of consciousness, to improve the vigil in oneself. Because you here and now, in practice, learn and cognize your true nature, you learn to feel other people, to separate the grain from the chaff, to separate the truth coming from the deepest feelings from the lies of your consciousness. And that is why any experience – it is only beneficial as a practical opportunity to understand what your consciousness is, who you are, where the illusions and images created by your own consciousness are, and where the truth without the masks of the system is. And what in general is globally happening in the world, if one looks at it not through the prism of consciousness, but perceives holistically from the Spirit.

IM: And this understanding of freedom – it is the very first step. In fact, the first realization that a person is indeed free in his choice – it is the first little step towards the Spiritual World. This is also important.

T: Of course ...

IM: And especially using the opportunity of not being alone in your studio, you can also ask other guys, this is what they come across. This is communication with people, what people are encountering. This is interesting.

T: Yes, let us remind our viewers, or, to be more precise, our listeners, that our guests, Volodya and Andrei, are still at our table. Though, they have already become more of interested listeners than participants in the conversation. But it would be desirable if you – Volodya, Andrei – if it is possible, share the main points of your personal experience. What did you have to face in practice, to understand, to realise – both when working in groups and, especially, when working with your own self? And in general, what enriches a person spiritually and what, in your opinion, hinders a person from following the spiritual path, based on your personal experience?

V: Well, basically, nothing hinders. The only thing... I think that a person, first of all, should acquire the knowledge in order to understand what a spiritual path is, what this world is, and, in general, what we are doing here, what we are manifested here for. And then the person already starts to move. He either moves along the spiritual path or he pretends that he is moving along the spiritual path. Here, it depends on what a person has accepted for himself, what goal he has set. If he does see the goal, then he moves. On the way, he can also get distracted by the tricks of consciousness. Strictly speaking, different situations may arise: some people may see some pridefulness in themselves or may not control this situation, some people... Well, there are different situations... The movement along the spiritual path is a goal-directed movement. If a person has really understood, accepted the knowledge, and not only did he understand, he has really lived through it or he begins to live by it – then he, basically, moves seriously, calmly, confidently, without getting distracted by various traps of consciousness, and so on. I believe so.

T: Maybe, Andrei will share some situations…

A: Well, many of such situations have accumulated as of today, thank God. One of such types of obstacles – it is the loss of a goal. Meaning, this is when a person, at some point, allows his consciousness to dominate, because he, let's say, is not working enough on himself. And at that moment, consciousness substitutes the goal. Meaning, in fact, consciousness has many desires, for example, to earn money, to make a career, I don’t know, to have a family... Someone wants to become a great athlete, someone – a great scientist…

IM: Consciousness has one desire – to eat, and those other desires it imposes on the Personality.

A: This is the way... the way to eat. One of the ways…

IM: ...of manipulation.

 A: Yes, of manipulation. But a person has, in fact, come here with one goal – to become Immortal.

 IM: To gain Life.

A: Yes, to gain Life. Often such moments happen, when this understanding, it... as if gets wiped out, disappears. And at some point, a person starts to thrash about. He is like a ship that has lost navigation. Meaning, he has swum out into the sea, but where to swim next – he does not know: the compass isn’t working (you know how it happens when a magnet is placed under a compass, and it turns in different directions). It seems, the ship is there, and the sails are filled, but the ship is being thrown back and forth in the sea, and until this understanding is restored – what the goal is, of course, different things happen…

IM: What is Andrei trying to say? I will translate so there is understanding… In actual fact, many people, having once experienced perception through feelings, like, for example, after the last programme which you hosted (ed. note: meaning, the programme LIFE on ALLATRA TV https://allatra.tv/en/video/zhizn), they have perceived it, felt it. And the desire to come to God arises. They start to understand and feel that this is the Truth, that there is a greater World than this one, and there is something which is beyond the brink of our perception. And this very process of striving, as a rule, it is short, because consciousness “beats one down”, the person loses his objective. Even when people go, for example, to their temples or churches and the like. They go… and they forget why they go. They go there to socialize, they go to have a good time, but they forget why they come there. They forget that they go there to interact with God.

T: That is, somewhere along the way they get carried away by these suggestions…

IM: Consciousness distracts, from the mind... This is how understanding gets lost.

A: Yes... And so, one of the tools by means of which consciousness, let’s say, redirects the Personality, the course of its movement – it is laziness. When at some point a person stops developing spiritually, shows weakness somewhere, stops controlling his thoughts, meaning, he allows in himself some desires, or patterns, then consciousness is gaining strength. Here, a serious confrontation is going on.

IM: A tug-of-war.

A: Yes. Just as Igor Mikhailovich has told that consciousness eats, yes, here really, a question arises: who will, excuse me for the expression, eat? Meaning, will consciousness eat and dominate completely over the Personality, or, after all, will the Personality be replenished with the powers of Allat and keep consciousness on a strong leash. And laziness – it is also one of the tools of consciousness, when a person is too lazy to analyze and understand how consciousness works. A simple example, which is often repeated today, is when people come and say, "I have such thoughts that I won’t make it in time, that I cannot do it." But there is a simple recommendation: take a notebook and write down what consciousness tells you. And there is a very simple tool, when you hear these thoughts, you write down, "My consciousness says...", and you write exactly what it is quoting. For example, consciousness says, "I cannot come to God"... Well, I think, everything is clear.

 IM: But, in fact, it is not lying...

A: Yes…

IM: It cannot get to God. But the point is that it imposes the same thing on Personality which can get there.

A: Yes. And here, there's the most important point, here Igor Mikhailovich is saying rightly that it, let’s say, “lays its own fault at somebody else's door”. That is, at this moment, it says to the Personality that “I am you, and it's you who cannot do it”, meaning, I can’t. But if one knows that it’s simply quoting of thoughts from consciousness that’s happening…

T: Well, yes, that it’s consciousness which is speaking and broadcasting, while consciousness will never be able to do it.

A: Yes. That is, we can talk about doubts, we can talk about uncertainty, we can say that we have no experience. But all these are products of consciousness. Why? Here, people say, “I have no experience.” Yet, who prevents one from gaining experience? Laziness. And what engenders laziness in a person? Consciousness. In other words, consciousness, if a person begins to listen to it, it indeed, let’s say, leads the person astray.

And, strictly speaking, nobody is holding person’s hands. Indeed, nothing holds him back. He is completely free in his choice. But in order to make the right choice, one really should know what to choose between…

V: In actual fact, this is so simple, so natural. People stop listening to the voice in their head, and start thinking of how to help others. It’s like they say, if you feel bad, find the one who feels worse and help him or her – you yourself will feel better.

IM: Previously, a slightly different practice was used – through discipline, mutual respect. At least an elementary thing – understanding, at least at the level of consciousness – understanding, but also adhering to this. That is, consciousness tries to impose something, like the voice in one’s head (yes, those very “actors”)… Refuse it. Consciousness says one thing, and you – no, the other. And precisely the perception of this different also led one to perception through feelings of what they have in common. And people also perceived this way. This is available in all religions, just the paths are a little different.

V: Yes, everything begins with self-discipline. Then all this… when people are in a group, they understand that, when everybody does his or her part, all this as a whole leads to good things in the group.

IM: Well, here’s the key point: everything begins, first and foremost, with self-discipline. And this has been talked about always and at all times, no matter whom we take (like, who really worked on themselves, followed the path, and not just were talking about this, and were not bragging at each turn) – everything begins just with self-discipline, only a person himself can come to the Spiritual World if he indeed has a burning desire… And the most interesting thing is that we have interrupted Andrei, this is not fair.

A: Everything’s okay, I just… it’s so interesting, too… such a vivid point. I will simply voice it, then, I don’t know whether you’ll cut out these shots from the film or not… It is very interesting… At the level of feelings, I’ve realised that I’m saying the right things, but the vibe is wrong… This is so interesting, meaning, I am kind of saying the right things, disclosing the patterns of consciousness, but I feel that it is somehow like phew… and it is changing to another vibe, and… somehow…well, all this is interesting. There is a common flow, but what I’m saying in this flow, it is as if…

IM: This is surely not for this programme, Andrei.

A: I got it. No, well… I can certainly go on… But just so that it doesn’t distract, well, meaning, you know, here it is going like… phew…

IM: I’ve understood you, but this is inappropriate here.

V: Indeed, consciousness does not understand… It cannot understand. It is tuned only to obtaining knowledge of the three-dimensional world. That’s all. As for that which lies beyond the limits of three-dimensionality, consciousness is unable to understand it. And there is also another point, when a person begins, endeavours to understand what spirituality is, then for the person, this may be culture, this may be some traditions. In actual fact, in order to understand what the Spirit is, what matter is, in order to differentiate them and to understand what this really is, what the deepest feelings are…

Spirituality – it is for all that, first and foremost, understanding that there is the material world and there is the Spiritual World (the World of the deepest feelings), that a person is able to understand, to feel, and eventually to become a resident of that world. This is not difficult, in fact. One should only apply one’s own understanding here and indeed patience, persistence. Then a person understands all this, all this is natural.

T: Well, Volodya, you must agree, “to apply one’s own understanding” – often consciousness uses exactly this in people’s heads, creating confusion. And you know these examples. Spirituality is Life in Spirit here and now. And consciousness as the opponent of everything spiritual always unnoticeably tries to apply some kind of its own understanding to the spiritual Knowledge. Igor Mikhailovich once mentioned an Oriental expression, “A person either understands the Truth as It is and changes himself according to It, or he changes the Truth to please his vile passions, turning it into a lie.” And, as a result, people distort the Knowledge.

V: Yes, this kind of thing happens very often. Generally speaking, based on my experience… the most natural human state is the state of happiness. Well, it’s not comfortable to live in some everyday commonplace quarrels, squabbles, well, it’s not nice, not comfortable. But the most natural state is normal human relations: kind, neighbourly. It’s an understanding of the fact that another person is just like me. He has the same soul as I have. As a matter of fact, we have nothing to divide. It’s an understanding that the entire world is integrated, it’s united in Spirit. Whereas, matter, consciousness divides.

T: Volodya, could you be more specific, say, give personal examples of spiritual development, from the perspective of practice already: when I know what I choose, then, finally… it isn’t a theory anymore which I’ve read in books, it isn’t a theory anymore which I’ve gathered in all classes, which I have listened to in records of the programmes. Please, share your practical experience.

V: For me in the beginning, precisely the key point probably became the fact that I saw an example in front of me. This was first, because I saw how people were able to keep themselves under control, find ways out of various situations. And there were examples of how one can act in life. There was one kind of examples, another kind of examples. I started asking myself the question, “And how can I react?” That is, in a specific situation. The very first thing I did was that I began to observe: why do I react to people in such a manner? 

I had one vivid example… I pathologically dislike drunk people. Well, and once I was riding on one of the buses, and the bus was more or less crowded. A drunk man gets on it. The first feeling was rejection. But this man smiled and started quoting poems. For me, it was a shock: he was doing such things, he was reciting with such a feeling, it was amazing. I understood that I must think, or, well, at least react to this man, in a totally different way. Because in him I saw “the real human” (homo veritas), not as I had thought about him. That is, it turns out that inside me there is the one who thinks badly, but he thinks totally wrong. He does not evaluate a person as he or she is, but sees only a picture in front of him. This way, he was quoting for, probably, about twenty minutes, while we were riding the bus, he didn’t stop. He was doing this with a feeling, it was a poem. And I thought, “Wait… well, I cannot do this so far, my intellect is not so developed. It turns out the man has something deep, that which troubles him, and he can convey it. Question: why do I react in such a way instead of seeing the real picture?”

I started searching… Well, as a matter of fact, I was searching in various directions: both in religions and everywhere. And then I began to practice martial arts. I met people who are able to control themselves. From this my understanding began where exactly I should move and how to work with this. Then, there were our dialogues about various behavioural motives, about how one can react, who “a human” in general is, what he consists of, and why he reacts in such a way, what consciousness is… This was a starting point for me as to what I should learn. I went, started rummaging in libraries, to a certain extent familiarizing myself with yoga, with psychology. Then we began to put all this to the test on ourselves. Because… well, here it is, life: when the knowledge is applied in life, then you understand that it does work, it is real, and it can be worked with. 

Those “rakes I stepped on” were numerous. That very elementary incomprehension of my own nature. There were indeed plenty of mistakes. When I failed to trace a point of envy in myself at a certain time and wanted some material welfare. Well, naturally, I got into a situation in which I had to… implement that which… As it is said, I made all mistakes it was possible to make.

Every situation is an experience. One should examine oneself. As a matter of fact, that is my first realisation that I should take responsibility for myself, for my life, and for my spiritual development. I started working with meditations, with spiritual practices. And that’s when I understood where I can find this very state of peace, this very stare of some inner happiness, in which nothing else is needed. There is no need to strive for some achievement, it is already there. There is an internal state of peace. There is an internal state of some elation. And this is what I have found in practices.

That’s all, then I simply began to work with this. It became my inner state. Gradually… there were still falls, there were rises, but it already became that very guiding star, a thin thread which I seized, recalled that “yes, it is there”. I gained a certain experience. This gave me an opportunity to study this science more profoundly. As a matter of fact, this is what has helped me personally.

And when I saw that I can achieve this on my own – there it is, it turned out to be not difficult. One should just apply some internal intention to this (it’s not a desire, but rather an intention) and then work with it quite easily. And already further, when such situations appeared, I could already solve them in life quite easily. And from the position of calmness, it’s already obvious where a situation comes from, where I have invested attention, why the situation has unfolded like this, where some pattern of mine has been activated. And everything began to be resolved normally, meaning, situations began to level out. And relations with people already became visible: where they start and how to conduct them better, how to interact better. Relations with people began to level out. All this became a beginning, so to say, of establishing myself on this path.

T: Very well, thank you. Andrei, and what about you? Please, share your practical experience.

A: Yes, indeed, there is such an experience. When I came across the knowledge, I understood that I had no idea of my dual nature. I didn’t understand that there are two natures in me, which, let’s say, fight for my attention. And exactly this point became crucial. I started exploring one nature and the other one, meaning, the Animal nature and the Spiritual nature, or, let’s say, the good force within me and the evil force within me. What inside me prompts activation of these forces? That is, how do they operate, why is it that sometimes I am angry and sometimes I am not?

T: And could you, please, give some personal examples, an experience which may be useful for other people as well?

A: So, I am now sitting and trying to recall. It seems like there have been many things, but what is now surfacing… Well, I will say it as it is… The greatest thing that urged me onto this path, for all that, was the desire to Live. When I started seriously working on myself, those situations that took place in life, let’s say, in the invisible world, these situations added, for me, understanding and keenness that human life, on the one hand, seems to be simple, but on the other hand it is very complex and very valuable. Why? Because one should be very, very careful in it. A single wrong step can lead to irreversible consequences.

The first mistake (I had such a mistake, too) – it is thoughts emerging in the head that in order to develop spiritually you should abandon your job, should abandon the social environment which you live in, should leave somewhere, say, for the mountains or for the forest as a hermit and engage in spiritual development there. It’s a huge mistake that I have encountered as well. Why? Because these thoughts come from consciousness. They, on the contrary, are trying to remove a person from the environment where he is the most useful and his development will be the most effective. After all, look, in the forest, there are no people with whom, let’s say, we feel uncomfortable, and we won’t be able to figure out: why is it uncomfortable? After all, people for us are mirrors, right? That is, if a person irritates me in something, then, first and foremost, this is within me, these are some things in me which are still not worked out. In the forest, I won’t see such mirrors.

Being engaged in practices, I have understood that this world is aggressively disposed towards people who do this, and towards people on the whole. This world wants to separate people in order for them to be at odds. And here recently, there was such an interesting situation… Once, after a nighttime meditation, I came over, was talking to guys, and I felt that inside I had such a state… as if something valuable was given to me, but it was as if not within me yet, but near me. And interesting situations start happening. I meet the first person, and he immediately asks me such a question, that is, not even a question, but, let’s say, gives me a certain guide for action in such a quite aggressive, emotional form. I think, “Calm down!” And I ask myself a question, “And what is happening? Why is the person so aggressive towards me?” And he says to me, well, you must do this, you should… And I think, “Oh, what an interesting dialogue, even not a dialogue, but rather some monologue.” And I respond to this person, “Yes, yes, yes…”, in the meantime I leave and understand that some not so good jitters start occuring inside me. And I understand that the valuable gift that I have received – it may now leave me.

The next phase. I leave and understand that I shouldn’t talk to this person now, under no circumstances should I be drawn into emotion. That is, I definitely must not become outraged that he is talking emotionally to me… I leave, go away. But then a totally different person runs up, looks into my eyes and asks, “Are you okay?!” I am standing there and saying, “Yes… I’m okay…” I move away from him and think, “Well, I need to go”, because I understand that I am on such a verge… And, on one hand, I seem to understand everything, but I feel that I can lose, and therefore I kind of don’t want to play at bravado. Here is, by the way, one of the patterns that, like, “Here I can do anything, I’m a fine fellow”… I understand that it’s better for me to leave. I get into the car, drive away from the place, and suddenly I get a phone call: water delivery. They say to me, “You have ordered water…” I say, “I have not ordered any water.” I just say it calmly.

V: The system has activated.

A: Yes… I say, “I haven’t ordered water.” A thought comes to me right away who has ordered this water. I call this person and say, “Listen, have you ordered water?” He says, “Yes, I have ordered water.” Yet, I have already left that place by that time, and I say, “Do you understand that there is no one there already who will accept it? And where are you?” He answers, “I am at a workshop.” And that’s when I understand at the inner level that, conventionally speaking again, as if they put “a loaded gun” in my hands, and say, “You can now tell this person off…”

V: There was a suggestion of some kind of annoyance, of becoming angry…

A: Yes. You can now tell him off like “how could you do it that you’ve ordered water and left without letting anybody know”, and so on, and so forth. And I understand that the system has just put “a weapon” into my hands, and I only need to “pull the trigger”. And I understand that all this power will now simply go into this person. At the same time, I understand that I shouldn’t do this, meaning, I shouldn’t respond emotionally to him. I say, “Yes? Well, okay, we’ll sort it out. That’s fine, everything’s okay, we will pull through”… And they call me already from water delivery, and I start apologising to them. I say, “Guys, please, excuse us, we have forgotten and left.” It seems I am right, am I? And the situation seems to have no direct relation to me, and by the logic of consciousness, I have all the arguments in order to express everything to the person and explain to people that I haven’t ordered water, and, generally speaking, why are they calling me at all? But I apologised to them, “Sorry,” I say, “here’s a phone number of the person who deals with this. Please, talk to him, he will take care of everything.”

And I feel that at a certain point in time this bliss which had been around me, it as if… came into me. That is, for this entire time, for several hours there was a play for this inner power, will I waste it on false pride or not? After all, in actual fact, this is pridefulness. Pridefulness in what sense? A person is talking emotionally to me. And what should I do? Should I react or not, respond in the same manner, say to him, “Pardon me, why are you talking to me like that?” or simply get away gently, keeping silent? And such situations, they teach one. These are little lessons by means of which you understand what this inner power really is, and how all this works, how the system operates at such moments, in which ways. But almost always, it plays on pridefulness.

That is, at a certain point, I started realising the value of Allat powers, the value of the powers which Personality needs for its spiritual growth. A person is able to feel these powers coming into him, he has such a capability. And precisely the long-term experience of contact with the Knowledge and the experience of certain degrees of spiritual freedom, it allows one to make this choice. That is, I understand that if I now act according to the patterns of consciousness, I will lose that power which will help me to be above consciousness or, let’s say, to be…

V: …more alive.  

A: …more alive, yes. And this very state and understanding of what being Alive means, and what it means to be enslaved by consciousness, meaning, to be dead, it is precisely this very stimulus which lets one make a decision. That is, roughly speaking, I am being offered to defend the ego of consciousness by means of my vital force. But I don’t agree to this.

T: Well, this is certainly good. But the issue is in something different here, because in this case, the starting mechanism was exactly the thought from secondary consciousness that “it was not approved by me”. When you are a participant of these illusory games of consciousness, of this fight between primary and secondary consciousness, “the fight for the crown”, then, unfortunately, you as Personality don’t see what is really happening… Because, well, in this situation, everything is much simpler. Consciousness – yes, it likes to make a mountain out of a molehill, it likes to blow up a situation, to make an emotional event out of nothing. And in actual fact, in this case there have been many more patterns of consciousness divulged than conclusions drawn.

V: Again, this is precisely internal freedom, understanding that I can choose one or another thing, choose some way of action. Then it helps a great deal. And this is, first and foremost, knowledge and experience, when you start working with this. Such things happen very often. There is always such a moment when we make a choice. It’s always there. It’s just that more often a person misses this moment and acts according to a pattern.

Understanding of the fact that we can stop ourselves in time in any situation, make some adequate decision in time, gives us an opportunity to be in contact with any person, to resolve any situation, even a conflict one, in a normal way.

A: On the subject of what Igor Mikhailovich is saying… Precisely laziness and unthorough knowledge of the system results in the fact that people start desiring what must not be desired. The system, it doesn’t sleep, and it works through close people. That is, I’ve wanted to say that one of the ways when such relationships with people are disturbed, the first thing needed is not to blame a person by any means, and it’s not important whether you are right or wrong, you should ask for his forgiveness at least in thoughts. After all, what do we do with him in thoughts with the help of consciousness? We argue and try to prove a point, that we are supposedly right, while somebody is wrong, or we resent… This is, first of all, a habit and lack of experience.

V: Of experience and attention... Understanding of yourself.

A: While working on myself, I have once adopted as a rule that I don’t talk to anyone in my head. Meaning, you know, it often happens that when some situation has happened to a person, maybe a conflict one, maybe some other kind, and we are talking to this person in our head, we are trying to prove something to him. Or simply, something good has happened to us, and we are modeling something there in our head, how we come to someone and tell him. This should not be done under any circumstances. Why? Because in our head, we enter into a dialogue with, pardon me, our consciousness. Our consciousness is very interested in this. Why? Because often such dialogues with consciousness occur in the emotional sphere. Emotion is a conductor of the Animal nature in a person. We redirect our power needed for spiritual development and give it to consciousness. That is, in such a way, we feed consciousness, strengthen the one who will then be enslaving us...

There are frequent cases, common at the initial stage of performing spiritual practices, when such thoughts come, "The spiritual practice is not going well for me." This is consciousness speaking about itself now. But this is indeed so. However, consciousness makes a substitution, it speaks about it as if from the Personality. Meaning, if a person forgets that he cannot think, and the voice in his head does not belong to him, then he accepts it all as his own and starts to put the power of his attention into these words.

In order to understand this, first, you need to start, pardon me, to banally study your consciousness, that is, to simply track it. For this, actually, you only need a notebook and a pen. As of today, we already understand that the human Personality – it is unable to think, and it doesn’t know how to experience emotions. Personality only feels, meaning, Personality cannot be angry, offended, or envious. It feels. Taking this fact into account, it is very easy to work with this. We take a notebook, a pen and simply write down those thoughts which we observe in our heads.

Our consciousness likes very much to speculate. Here is, let's say, a simple example. I am talking to a person, he has looked at me somehow strangely, and to someone in me it has seemed that he’s taken offence at me. And what is consciousness saying to me, "Now, he took offence to you because there was...", and starts to make up why and for what reason. I take a notebook and write, "Here, consciousness is saying to me that a person has got offended at me because of..." I walk up to this person and say, "Excuse me, please, here's such a situation. Tell me, please, is this so?” He tells me entirely opposite things, that this does not have anything to do with me at all, and those were just some of his issues... But at this moment I, let's say, having lost my vigilance, allowed my consciousness to make these assumptions. And as of today, a lot of such situations have accumulated.

V: Nonetheless, you went ahead and checked it out.

A: Yes, you should definitely check. That is, why is the catharsis needed, and why is it necessary to communicate and to tell about what is happening inside? Because this way we can find out the truth. Consciousness likes to fill in the blanks regarding who thinks what, who does what, and it sort of constantly presents these theories to a person (Personality). And because a person starts to listen to this, he starts to have a lot of problems in his life, because he is guided by conjectures and assumptions.

Very interesting moments occur during catharsis. Why? There comes a relief. Meaning, the first thing that happens, first of all, is that this voice in the head goes silent, and the dialogue stops right away, instantly. Situations are resolved peacefully, and a new understanding comes. There comes an understanding that there is still an influence on that person. That is, in fact, often exactly these conversations, dialogues in the head, they happen not only to, say, me, but also to the one with whom I am doing this in my thoughts. Why? Because if there is some hidden reticence between people, or if people do not open up in terms of what the Animal nature tells them, they fall into these closed loops and traps of consciousness. That is, the system imposes the same thoughts on them, aimed at division between them. After all, the most important task of the system is to divide people. And it divides them by means of thoughts, that is, it turns us against each other in our thoughts. To avoid this, it is simply necessary to unite in spite of everything, that is, whatever the situation is. And for this unification to be more simple, heartfelt and easy, it is necessary to expose the thoughts of the Animal nature within oneself.

V: It is written both in the articles and in the books that the power of the system is in secrecy, in the fact that it is not visible.

A: Yes. And when noticing this dialogue in the head or some kind of desire inside me to tell something to someone, I just stopped it. I just said to myself, "Stop. That’s it, I do not communicate." Or there is another very good way (this is, of course, one of the best ways), if this is your friend, then call that person and say, "You know, I'm talking to you in my head now and telling you this, and this, and this" or "Right now in my head, I am arguing with you regarding such and such matter."

V: These arguments start, first of all, inside, and then it all comes out. But if you have not let this conflict unfold neither in your head nor outside, then that’s it, everything has been resolved peacefully, there are no conflicts of any kind.

A: I would like to give one of such examples, by the way, a quite funny one. Our movement is multinational, there are people of different nationalities in it. And so, once a funny incident happened. I have an acquaintance – a representative of the peoples of Caucasus. I am friends with him, we communicate in our activities. And at one point, I notice in myself a strange reaction to some of his actions. That is, he all of a sudden starts to annoy me, someone in me does not like how he behaves, how he says something… And I understand that it should not be this way. I meet with him and say, "Listen, pardon me, please, but do you have a minute? We need to talk. You see, my Animal nature does not like that you are doing such and such. I don’t understand why this is happening, I don’t know…”

He looks at me with such wide eyes and says, "You know, the Animal nature has been telling me for three days already that you do not like representatives of the Caucasus nationality." Can you imagine?! I did not have even thoughts like that! That is, it tells me one thing from the point of view of my patterns, of my pridefulness, and it tells him that I all of a sudden started to treat him somehow not nicely because he is a representative of another nationality.

Once we had talked about this, we laughed, of course. I say, "Forgive me, please, maybe I'm doing something wrong. I do not want to neither quarrel with you nor fight. I want to be friends. I understand that this is the system, that it wants to divide us, wants us to quarrel and so on..."

We talked like that, and afterwards, even a thought didn’t turn in the direction of some offences, and not just offences, but even some mutual grievances. And why? Because at that moment I realised that when I came and asked for forgiveness (that is, even though it seems there was no reason for it), the system did not expect such a turn of events. Meaning, it thought that, on the contrary, there will be again a manifestation of pridefulness, maybe, of some kind of male rivalry. The system likes to play with it (say, alpha domination among men, same as among women, that is, such things). But there was this open dialogue and a sincere desire not to side with the system, meaning, a sincere desire not to support it. The system did not even try to offer these thoughts anymore, at least, for the present moment. That is, such a unity ensued...

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