Alive conversation - pages 28-40
The text of the programme “Consciousness and Personality. From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive” under the editorship of Anastasia Novykh. (Note, the abbreviations used in the text: presenter Tatiana – T; Igor Mikhailovich Danilov – IM; Zhanna – Zh; Volodya – V; Andrey – A).
01:35:58 - 02:18:42
T: Igor Mikhailovich, you have spoken specifically about the manifestation of the God’s Mother, of angels and the like. People ask themselves: ”What is the difference between a spiritual vision and a figment of their imagination? What is a spiritual vision?”
IM: A spiritual vision is just a vision of reality. However, right now, trying to explain that, I can easily confuse people. Because the consciousness (imagination, a hallucination of the consciousness), always draws in usual forms: in those which we can imagine for ourselves, which we see. Look into the consciousness; it will show you a lot. How can you see a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, an angel or something else? Only through your inner eyes. However, they will not show you the three-dimensional picture.
T: Yes...Only through inner eyes… It is an interesting fact that people who indeed, in practice, follow a spiritual path, they understand each other regardless of their belonging to one or another religion because the Truth is one for everyone. You realise this, reading letters from various parts of the world, communicating with people who grew up in the environment of diverse cultures or religious traditions.
For example, how is it said both in Christianity and in Sufism about the cognition of God’s Love? In the treatises on Sufism, the ones who practise describe what it means to know God - it is to live by contemplating God with your heart. At that, under the “contemplation”, the Sufis specifically mean a “spiritual vision”. They emphasize that some people fall into error, supposing that spiritual vision and contemplation are some sort of image of God which their consciousness forms and presents by virtue of its own representations, memory, or mind.
IM: Well, of course, it is just a program of consciousness’s patterns.
T: And the real contemplation is already a result of diligence in sincere rousing Love. The Love which raises you as Personality to such a height, where inner life itself becomes a single aspiration for Beloved one, for God, for the Spiritual world...for Him only. And there is the inner understanding that except Him, nothing more exists.
Zh: Yes, because you already realise that the work on oneself manifests, first and foremost, through sincerity and through honesty. And all this is happening in self-restraint. Meaning, that not anyone else, but, first of all, you need it yourself. At this point, the inner need to live by God, by the Spiritual world, already arises. And you already thirst for this inner contact, an immersion into this boundless joy of Love, this life by the deepest feelings, because it gives you everything genuine, it gives you Life, it vivifies you with Love. You feel that you are being filled with it, you feel the joy from that world, which cannot be temporary, how it overflows, how much of it there is, and how it manifests itself in its boundlessness through Love and gratitude. You understand that it is so simple! And you experience such gratitude; you are in such a state of grace... words fail to express it. You are just uniting with the Source of this God’s Love and becoming a part of it. You are craving to radiate this Love incessantly and to be in it. Because in such moments you realise that...the Spirit is in freedom!
IM: Yes... in order to join the Spiritual world, you should stay on the side of the Spiritual world and become a Spirit yourself, then you will join it. That is, a Spirit can merge with a Spirit, matter with matter. Fire with fire, water with water. However, fire cannot be mixed with water.
T: Igor Mikhailovich, there is such a question in the letter of a person who practises Sufism. In those same treatises on Sufism, there is such a description, that when a person performs “mujahat”, meaning inner jihad against his lowly passions, then “mushahadah” is revealed to him, meaning this beatific contemplation of boundless Love, this enduring amazement by God’s greatness and power... And the question is: ”When this spiritual vision is revealed to a person, do the distinctions between this earthly world and the Spiritual World become erased?”
IM: In reality, when “mushahadah” is revealed to a person, under no circumstances do the distinctions become erased. It is simply that a new perception, different from this perception, to which a person as a Personality has been used to (to the perception, which his consciousness is foisting on him), is acquired. He acquires something new. It is not associated with anything in this world, even describing it is complicated. For example, how can you describe God’s Love? We are trying to by means of earthly words, we talk about it a lot, but it is a distortion anyway, it is still bringing that happiness down to earth. Here we are saying – happiness. What is happiness in people’s understanding? It is a temporary, immediate, and quick-passing phenomenon. And there, it is boundless. We say – boundless happiness, and we compare a boundless ocean with a drop in the palm of your hand. And it is precisely this drop that we are calling a boundless happiness in this world. But in fact, it is an ocean; it is boundless, it has neither beginning nor end. And it is difficult to express.
T: That means that the distinctions between the earthly world and the Spiritual World do not become erased, but….
IM: ...the distinctions do not become erased, on the contrary, they become evident. What am I leading up to? The transfer of knowledge or experience in such a way, it is attractive only philosophically. It sounds good, people talk and write about it. As it is acceptable to the consciousness that the distinctions become erased and it is attractive to it. It is attractive precisely for the consciousness that “the distinction is erased and this world smoothly segues into that one, and that world is a part of this one”, like yin and yang.
Well, it is clear that the Spirit is present in this world, and everything alive is alive due to the Spirit, and if you remove the Spirit, everything will disappear. It means that a part of the Spiritual World is present here, but it is present as a motion, not more. And then, everything happens already as it happens but by the will of the Prince, who rules it. And this power is given to him, not because he has revolted, or he is powerful, or he is equal to God and has conquered his own world – no, by no means. We have spoken about it many times and will not repeat. The whole point here is that it is advantageous for the system to make people’s consciousness perceive it this way, it feeds its pride. But the very fact is that everything changes drastically, and images disappear, and there is an understanding of the emptiness of this world.
That is why we have spoken about this many times, and I will repeat it once again that the Personality does not perceive this three-dimensional world. The Personality starts perceiving it from much higher dimensions. But from much higher dimensions, even speaking the language of physics, this world turns into nothing. It is ridiculous, it is really ridiculous. If there were such a mirror which would reflect for the consciousness the way the Personality sees and perceives this world, I guess, it would be the coolest show that could ever be in this world. Why? Because something that we consider as life turns out to be emptiness, which only moves while changing illusions.
For this reason, such interpretations partly lead people astray and, unfortunately, increase the influence of the consciousness on the Personality. And it is harder for people who are getting immersed in some thoughts connecting with such interpretations to break free. Because the Personality gets information from the consciousness that “all the distinctions should become erased and everything should become a single whole.” And so, the Personality is searching for the way there where everything is single whole… But there are differences. The Alive cannot be dead, and certainly, the dead cannot be Alive.
Zh: Yes, indeed, this is very useful information for the one who practises. This is a frequent occurrence, and I have encountered this myself at the beginning of the path that when a person is just beginning to practise, the first thing that he faces is the fear coming from consciousness, meaning, the fear of going beyond the limits of the familiar. When, for example, a person for the first time in his life had a successful practice, and he came in contact... this first experience of contact with the spiritual... this first contact with the unknown - it also as if causes an attack coming from consciousness. That means consciousness imposes fear on him. Firstly, fear that a person can lose his self-identity. But is this self-identity really his? That is the question. Because, in essence, only the consciousness can lose its own "I".
T: Consciousness is afraid of novelty, especially when it comes to this moment about which you spoke, the moment of contact with the spiritual, with what lies beyond for it, because it is unknown to the consciousness, and the way there is closed to it, the consciousness does not know, does not understand. As Igor Mikhailovich had said: at this moment, it is simply that "an exit of the Personality beyond the limits within which consciousness can function" occurs.
Zh: Well, yes, and if a person was not tricked by the first fear, then the second fear of consciousness arises that "you will never be able to do it again."
T: Yes, but first it says that "Here, - it says, - remember these sensations that happened now or that occurred in the past, and be sure to repeat them the next time."
Zh: Well, of course, because it knows that the next time, it will not work for the person exactly the same. Why? Because, when starting to perform a spiritual practice next time, instead of doing it, you will be straining your consciousness and recalling how it was for you last time...
T: And, on top of it, the consciousness will embellish your this here "heroic past". And your attention gets hooked... Instead of practice, it is some kind of a movie coming from the consciousness about the Superman where your pride is the director. Well, and in general, what can your consciousness show you? It shows the usual illusions, images, everything phantom... Because that's all it is capable of.
IM: You have observed absolutely correctly that consciousness creates an illusion and attempts to bind the Personality to that same illusion. But notice, not to the practice, not to the previous experience, but to the illusion created by the consciousness against the background of previous experience. That means, a person, performing spiritual practice (regardless of whether it is a prayer, a meditation and the like), he receives the experience of feelings, real experience, the experience of perception of the Spiritual World. Something manifests in him that can not be described by words. And here, the Primary consciousness, since it has a sufficiently pronounced connection with the Personality, it receives echoes, bursts. It does not receive the information that the Personality has perceived.
The Primary consciousness receives only echoes. Not the flame of a fire, but, let's say, distant specks of light and a slight warmth. But on the basis of this, it creates its illusion. And after a person finishes the spiritual practice or a prayer, after a certain time, it forces him to analyse: "What did you feel? What did you perceive?" And it already imposes something of its own... in the interpretation of the system. This is absolutely not the right experience... Personality receives true experience and consciousness creates an illusion based on this experience. And in the future, it already begins to tell the Personality that "you must feel this and that", meaning, it takes him to the material world. It makes him feel the physical manifestations that he felt during practice.
But again, what happened during the practice? When a Personality came into contact with that unknown to the consciousness, while acquiring spiritual experience, it is natural that other processes took place, stronger manifestations of other types of energies. This is commonplace physics. In the physical body, there are echoes of these manifestations, too. And consciousness, I emphasize again, the Primary consciousness, perceives them. Later, it sets up the Personality, saying: "You will not succeed. You got there accidentally. But now, in order to get there and entrench yourself, you must first generate in yourself these sensations in the physical body. You must be in an altered state of consciousness..." And it begins to tell you what it perceived but, again, always with a substitution. And a person, trying to do something, he already does it with the help of consciousness, and it doesn't work.
Later the consciousness begins to tell him: "Was that experience or was it an illusion? Or was it some kind of self-suggestion, self-hypnosis? Maybe it was a hallucination, maybe things just aligned that you felt this. In fact, as you can see, this does not exist. And what other people say about this, they fall into a delusion, into an illusion. This is some kind of fanaticism talking in them up to some kind of mental disorders that they see something that does not exist. And, if you practise this and do it, you, will get in trouble, too. Therefore, better not do it. Why? You tried, you didn't succeed. Therefore, it doesn't exist." This is how, often and densely, the consciousness simply takes people away from the true path, replacing it with some kind of elementary, let's say, theatrical performances in three-dimensionality, forcing a person to do something physically, to perform some kinds of practices, to sit properly, to stand properly. But what's the difference what position your body is in?! What's the difference what you are doing in three-dimensionality?! Whether you hit a tambourine, pile stones, or perform some other ritual - it is just ritualism, it's just what the system is imposing on you.
God - He is close. He's really closer than your carotid artery. He is very near, and it is very easy to come to Him. But much more than mountains stand in the way. Consciousness is in the way, and consciousness is a part of the system. That is, the dead stands on the way to the Alive. And this must be remembered.
And, under no circumstances, to focus on what the consciousness tells you. A spiritual impulse is needed, a spiritual experience. We must learn... just to Live. And Life is beautiful. And no matter what the consciousness says, no matter how it persuades you that "you will not succeed and you can not do anything" – it does not concern you. It speaks only about itself. The consciousness really can not do it. And it really does not know anything about the Spiritual World. Just the echoes about which people who have comprehended something communicate, and it makes its illusory pictures from this. Therefore, the main thing is to keep going and not to give up. And not to listen to the guides who are not leading you to the right place... I meant consciousness. Because your consciousness is not yours, it's a part of the system, and this must not be forgotten. Then everything will be all right; then everything will work out.
Zh: Yes... and when you live by perception through feelings, then you simply Live. And here there is a huge difference because it is as if you are breathing air. And you just know inside... how it is... to breathe... and that's it. Consciousness does not give freedom to the Personality. We just need to know that if it worked out once, then the second time, just don't dream, don't blame everyone around you for your failure because this is just a trick, it is a "greeting" from the consciousness when it looks for an enemy in the outer. One simply needs to understand that consciousness can put up such obstacles because, it is not beneficial for it, for you to become spiritually free. And when you realise that this is just the work of consciousness, that this is how it works, you do not fight with it, but merely open up further in freedom. That means you understand, that everything becomes very easy, that you do not have an attachment to the past, there is no attachment to the future. You understand that in spiritual practice, it is a constant "now" because this is the real Life. And in real Life, every moment is unique.
T: That is absolutely right.
Zh: Then you just live by the inner, you are filled inside. You see this difference not when you look at the person with the earthly eyes, but when you look with an inner spiritual gaze. It becomes very easy to distinguish the Truth from Lies, because no matter who says what, you already feel what is really going on... A person becomes for you like an open book: all his thoughts coming from the consciousness are visible, he is seen in all his spiritual essence because you feel, and feelings can not be deceived. You feel who is empty inside and that there is no spiritual experience behind him, of which his consciousness broadcasts.
You also feel those who, like you, are in constant practice, those who live by the Spiritual world, who are filled with this near and dear God's Love. You see his spiritual essence because you feel it from the inside, and you understand that there is something more behind it, something that unites you. And this experience, it is not like the one that was in the usual life, when you were feeding your attention to consciousness. Because in three-dimensionality, you fed images... you fed your consciousness. And when you began to live in the Spiritual world, then all your attention ... it is directed through deep inner feelings towards God. Your attention is directed to home, to the Source. You simply live by the Spirit. Everyone chooses how to live; everyone chooses himself.
IM: You have observed absolutely correctly. Spiritual vision is strikingly different from the earthly. Spiritual vision gives an understanding of the Truth; you see what really is. And earthly vision is just what consciousness wants to impose upon you or show you as a Personality. That means, it creates just another illusion, one that you must believe in, one that should distract you from your true destiny, from what you are here for. This is a huge difference.
Also as for lying ... Lying is an element of the system. In the Spiritual world, there is no deceit and can not be. In the Spiritual world, there is only Truth. This is why spiritual vision, again, I emphasize, it always shows what really is. An important point, people are striving for magic because, in reality, Personality seeks spiritual development...
T: So, the Person feels this need for spiritual development, the development of something beyond the boundaries, and consciousness just substitutes this need with magic?
IM: Yes. There is a point here. It lies in the fact that the Person seeks to learn the Truth. Personality strives for freedom, for real freedom. The Personality does not and can not have any enemies, meaning, in the Spiritual World. From the position of understanding the Spiritual world, the Personality is absolutely free. It seeks this freedom; it strives for it. And consciousness, as we have said many times, does everything to prevent the Personality from developing as a Spiritual being. That is, in order to preserve its power, its illusory power over the Personality.
That is correct... absolutely right words. Fortunately, I want to note that very many people have begun to understand this. And indeed, as of today, you can talk with many without using words. Getting ahead, I will say that with each year there will be more and more of such people. And this is nice... it's really nice.
The point is that the language of practitioners or people who are following the spiritual path, really striving for God, regardless of their religion, denomination, or anything else - it is one, and people feel each other. God is really one, the Spiritual world is one, and people have absolutely nothing to divide. Consciousness separates. It creates enmity, imposes an illusion simply because of power, because of the desire to dominate over the Personality. But when people cognize what the Spiritual World really is, they become one family, regardless of nationality, religious views, whether the person was an atheist or whoever he was before he was able to feel that the Spiritual world exists. As soon as a person has felt this, has realised and understood this, he becomes a part of the spiritual family, real family, the true, the inseparable, that family where life is Eternal, it does not end and, naturally, it is not in three-dimensionality, it is not in the earthly.
Everything earthly is finite, whatever is here, it's all temporary. Even those same illusions that the consciousness imposes, they are temporary. It is because of this that such moments arise when people serve in religion all their lives with faith and truth, and until the last day they doubt: "Does God exist?" Why? Because they were serving... serving the consciousness. And here is the thing, whom were they serving with their consciousness? Well, definitely not God, definitely not the Spiritual World. They were only serving the system: to please some organization, to satisfy their desires or something else, but more often than not, to satisfy other people's wishes, imposed upon them by someone else's consciousness, not even their own. And when people learn in practice, in reality, when they acquire Knowledge, they no longer need words. They understand this, they know. They know who they are, they know where they are going and why. This is of the highest value. It is for this that people come here, to be born... to be born Alive.
T: Igor Mikhailovich, I was very touched by what you said now, especially by what you said about united family in a spiritual sense. But consciousness banally twists everything and gives just earthly ideas about your family. It immediately fragments and divides… shows you some specific people, images…So to say, shows you relatives by flesh and blood. And moreover, the first thing that comes to mind is exactly emotional relationships with these people, or to be more precise, relations with their consciousness.
The most interesting thing is that earlier, being more in domestic relations with these people, even a thought did not come to mind that these people in reality were… that in these people, same as in you, there is a part of the Holy Spirit, that they are the Personality, the Personality in the non-material sense of the word.
And why did you think this way before? Because you simply thought but not felt, because you yourself were and lived by the consciousness. And for consciousness, everything is always based on its own egoism. And when looking honestly at the relations with your family, what happens in those moments when you live as dictated by your consciousness? Your consciousness constantly belittles the significance of others in comparison to you. For it, everything is about secret thoughts and consciousness is afraid to announce them. It is afraid of purity of the relationships, of honesty, of simplicity. Why? Because it craves power, it is concerned with its crown: what bad things were said and by whom about you, or on the contrary, who praised you. And in all this your whole life is passing, or to be more exact, the life of your consciousness is happening. But when you realise that in reality, you are a Personality, then in another person you also already see, first of all, his spiritual potential, you see a spiritual Personality. And most importantly, you feel it regardless of what your consciousness is telling you.
IM: That is absolutely right. How does our consciousness perceive what “family” is, what “relatives and loved ones” are? These are, again, mother, father, children, grandmothers, grandfathers, brothers, sisters, and well, the whole family. In reality, when people gain spiritual experience, they understand that all are one regardless of the colour of the skin, regardless of who lives where. It is one; it is whole, it is humanity.
Everyone has a soul. And to hurt someone is not right, it is the same as hurting the closest one. To hate someone is not right, even if he is evil and did something bad to you, one needs to understand that it's his consciousness. I am not saying that when hit on the left cheek, turn your right one.
When the system is in front of you, you need to make it understand; it won't get it otherwise. But I want to emphasize that Personality, as a potential Spiritual Being, is the same for everyone, it belongs more to the Spiritual World. And only when it gives up, loses its personal Armageddon and becomes a part of the system, then it simply dies… Yes, slowly… Subpersonality is a problem; after-death sufferings are also terrible. But the question is not in this… It is temporary anyway; it stops existing in either case.
But while a person is alive, he has a chance; he has an opportunity to join the Boundless World, the Spiritual World, and become a part of an enormous family. And here it's important to understand that any evil, which a person multiplies from the consciousness, it really stands between Personality and Spiritual World and moves you further away from the people closest to you. And as I have already said, the closest person is any person. People who attain the perception of the Spiritual World in practice especially feel and understand this. They understand all this.
Naturally, there is also a negative aspect, speaking the earthly language. Why? Because, as it has already been said, you can feel a lie coming from consciousness. When a person comes with, using the religious language, “with devil up his sleeve”, and talks from the devil, then, naturally, it is unpleasant. You feel sorry for his Personality, sorry for his… missing an opportunity to gain spiritual cognition.
But at the same time, when he allows his consciousness to dictate to him as a Personality, and that evil is being done through him – it is unpleasant. But then, a person knows the Truth. He knows who he is talking to: whether he is communicating with Spirit, or he is communicating with the devil. This is also important.
Zh: Yes, and this is one of such side-effects of the spiritual development when you feel a person even before he starts saying something, when you feel whose side he will be talking from now and what he wants in reality. And you already know the final goal of his visit. Because these are not some psychic abilities when people catch fragments of thoughts. No, here everything is much more serious. You have an entire, comprehensive understanding. You have an entire, comprehensive perception. You understand cause-and-effect relationships, meaning, you see deeper, you know from whom a person is speaking: from Spirit or from the system. And you know what that same system wants. You simply know…
The Alive cannot be dead,
and certainly the dead cannot be Alive.
IM: If we face the truth, consciousness manipulates a person. And it helps: we communicate and perceive each other with its help. But by hiding behind its intermediary, such diplomatic capabilities between Personality and three-dimensionality, it manipulates a person.
Personality, it’s not really material. If consciousness is material, then a Personality is not material. For an understanding of this process, I will just explain how it happens.Consciousness is an intermediary; it has a direct connection with Personality. That is why we perceive, why we see, feel and so on. In this process, Personality receives that information about three-dimensionality, which is given to it by consciousness in that way, in which we are used to seeing it. But when a person opens abilities of inner vision, then three-dimensionality appears to be totally different, and the notion of such a two-legged image or whatever else, well, it does not quite correspond to the reality.
T: That is, the value of the very matter is lost?
IM: Yes. One person expressed this manifestation well. He was asked: “How do you see another person?” and he replied: “Have you seen the rotation of an electron, an electron cloud? Well, something like that... only with more dirt.”
T: This is also a frequent question: “What does it mean, other vision of another person?” When a person has never seen anything but three-dimensionality, and he does not have this practical experience of perception through feelings, then what will his consciousness show him in another person? Only a body, that is, speaking the language of physics, a three-dimensional object, because this is how the perception of his consciousness is attuned.
IM: Yes, it is so. A person sees three-dimensionality in another person : simply hands, legs and all the rest. But if we look from a perspective of perception through feelings, really from the spiritual perception, at three-dimensionality, then what do we see, even if we look at another person? We see an object - a blurred spot. It is similar to… well, it is like the rotation of an electron around an atom. Just a blurred little cloud and all its components are visible. But we do not see a three-dimensional object when perceiving through feelings. And here for us, of course, consciousness is of help. That is, through consciousness, we see an object. And it turns out that when a person is spiritually already developed enough, he is free, he feels one thing but sees another. He understands perfectly that he sees an object with the earthly eyes. But he also sees the same object with the spiritual eyes. He sees whether a person is imbued spiritually or not. Whether he is empty inside or full. Again, in what condition is his Personality: in a slave state or it has already gained a degree of freedom.
And why many participants write letters to you (we have read them shortly before the programme), and they ask questions: “Why are those whom they’ve considered to be spiritual, they feel that they are empty inside?” In this is exactly the point, that people who are themselves developing, they start to feel. And perception through feelings is a vision through feelings. That is, they feel that a person says the right things, but inside is empty. But in this way, again, consciousness can also play with people. A person enters a temple, and instead of praying to God, he starts to compare scoops with Him, as if in the sandbox, starts to lay claims to God. Why? Because the person himself is empty inside.
Consciousness does not let him comprehend, perceive anything spiritual. But he wants to… consciousness tells a person that you need to feel the manifestation of the Spiritual World at a physical level. Something really should happen right now, then you will believe.
But how many times in the history of humanity people have been through this, when really there were phenomena with metaphysical manifestations and so on. And what about people?! How did their consciousness perceive it? It started to make things up, to explain it by acts of nature, certain metaphysical questions, magic, it started to accuse that there was a demon in this person. What will consciousness tell first of all? “A devil is in him and not the Spirit of God.” Why? Because it is much simpler to accuse and deny in order for the Personality not to gain freedom. If the Personality sees examples, it understands that it also can do it. And for consciousness, this is catastrophically scary. So it starts to accuse, to say “Come on, this is, on the contrary, demons… magic.”
Zh: Because it is not beneficial for the system when a person becomes spiritually free.
IM: Of course, because then the system starts to work for him.
Zh: Yes, and then the system instead of receiving…
IM: ...receiving, it spends. And in this is a phenomenon: no one wants to lose. It’s bad business for it.
T: I also wanted to share such a moment from my personal experience because I understand that such a question may arise from consciousness in people who are following the spiritual path. Well, at least, this question arose in me in early stages. When I first encountered this Knowledge, inside I felt… something really nearest and dearest. And there, deep inside, there was a definite “Yes!” But consciousness was throwing in doubts all the time, was weighing some pros and cons all the time. An understanding of what I will gain on the spiritual path – it was an understanding from the inside, an understanding beyond the consciousness. This unique feeling of freedom… There was some absolute deep certainty there… But consciousness was throwing in a thought: “And what will I lose on the spiritual path?” There was, of course, a trap there because at that moment I did not have an answer to this question. Well, I might say, a fear even arose in the consciousness… But there was much more good inside, of course.
IM: On the spiritual path, a person does not lose anything but sorrow and death. A person gains. That is why the fear to follow the spiritual path can come only from the consciousness. Why? Because it imposes its chains on the Personality. And the Personality on the spiritual path loses them. Many people are afraid that when cognizing, truly cognizing the spiritual, a person can lose those earthly skills that he has learnt. He won’t. Nothing is lost. A new understanding comes, a new perception comes. An understanding of what consciousness is comes. But this is not beneficial for the consciousness, that is why it imposes its opinion that a person can lose something. You will lose nothing; you will only gain. And you will gain that which can not be gained in three-dimensionality. Because that which you gain – it’s Eternal. And if it’s Eternal, then it can’t be lost. And whatever you may gain here, you will lose. It is important; one needs to know this before starting on his path. And before making the first step, a person needs to be aware and understand that one should not rely on the consciousness on the spiritual path. Because if one listens to its tips, it can lead to diseases, to tragedies, to anything. But excuse me, where is the spiritual here, if you are relying on the broken crutches of your consciousness?
You should not rely on anything. You simply need to Love. And when you really love – then you are loved too. Why does something that does not have a body, need supports? Supports are needed for the material body, and any supports are temporary. And this is important.
Zh: Yes, because you realise that a practical path to God is a way of exactly your inner feelings and actions. And this is a very important moment – exactly actions. That means, you are not sitting, not waiting that someone will come, will give you something, but you act, you simply express your feelings, you love, you are in this feeling every day. You express your intention with your feelings; you express it in the moment of “here and now.” And this is your personal life – this is the life of the Personality. It differs very much from that personal life, which your consciousness is familiar with, after all, it was making you suffer from the thoughts, was making you think about the outer…Because in these minutes of the deepest joy, you understand that your Spirit – it is not enslaved, that your Spirit – it is above the intellect. You understand that the Spirit – it is free, you understand that its power is in Love. You understand that the deepest self-expression of your boundless Love- that is a practical path to God, and , in practice, that is exactly what is most important.
From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive.
IM: When people are open to each other and perception through feelings dominates in them, then they simply add the three-dimensionality. And they really easily understand, easily grasp each other. However, as soon as consciousness overwhelmed: “How do we understand each other? I don’t even know your language” - that’s it, they stop understanding… Why? Not because consciousness had distracted, but because perception through feelings shut down. Because a person is where he invests the power of his attention. And if you invest it in consciousness, in matter, then perception through feelings shuts down.
T: There is such an opinion that when a person starts to feel more, then the system also starts to react to him more. Igor Mikhailovich, could you please comment on this?
IM: It is indeed so because the system always reacts and it does everything to, let’s say, cut a person off from perceiving the Spiritual World. It puts obstacles in his way. Because really, when something happens in person’s life, then that person starts to pay attention to what’s happening, and, well, out of habit, gets distracted. And the system, through the consciousness, attempts to keep him off the spiritual path so that he feels things less. But this happens when a person starts to feel.
T: Igor Mikhailovich, and when does a person become invisible for the system?
IM: When he lives by the Spiritual World, then the system simply does not notice him. It notices him only when he lives by the material world, when he is back here as we are here, sitting, talking and so on – now we are visible.
T: So, the first step on the spiritual path is cognition of oneself.
IM: Yes. In reality, this path which we are talking about is simple, elementary; it gives an opportunity to realise all the essence, the depth. And again, to learn how your consciousness works, to come to an understanding that your consciousness is not exactly yours, no matter how paradoxical this is, and the funniest thing is that it’s not you. We have already brought this up in the programme with you, that, thank God, now we can voice this. Why? Because this has been already confirmed by many neurophysiologists and other people, who are studying, who are at least observing themselves. They face the fact themselves that, it turns out, the consciousness puts more spokes in the wheels than it helps in the process of cognizing it…
T: What is the reason for that?
IM: The reason is that the consciousness of every person is a part of the whole. It is like a mycelium. The system does indeed exist. And that, which is spoken about in religions, in Bible, that the devil exists… Of course, he exists, no one is arguing about that. One can call him differently: it can be called the Universal mind, it can be called the Absolute, it can be called an Informational field, it can be called anything. But it’s more convenient to call it the system.
On the spiritual path, a person does not lose anything but sorrow and death.