Alive conversation - pages 96-107
The text of the programme “Consciousness and Personality. From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive” under the editorship of Anastasia Novykh. (Note, the abbreviations used in the text presenter Tatiana – T; Igor Mikhailovich Danilov – IM; Zhanna – Zh; Volodya – V; Andrey – A).
05:42:42 - 06:20:30
IM: We have spoken about this more than once, that consciousness as a part of the system, it always imposes, it is active, it forces, it compels, it tempts. But the Spiritual World — it simply is. It is enough for a person to calm down, to move away from thoughts, and he realises that he can observe his thoughts. And the one who observes — this is precisely a Personality.
And when he starts, as a Personality, from the position of this observer, to put the power of attention into the Spiritual World, meaning, into perception through feelings of that which is beyond the verge of this three-dimensionality, then he starts seeing even better how the thoughts try to control him, how they manipulate him.
But when, in reality, a person already studies it fairly well and realises that the consciousness — it is not he, well, then naturally, it loses power over him. And here a person can choose and act. It does not mean that life changes externally, but it becomes full and interesting. Thus, a person gets rid of such notions as “depression”, “psychological problems” or something else — after all, it all belongs to the system.
A simple example. How can a person have depression? Depression — it is one of the forms of such complete egoistic self-love, I would even say when “the entire world is bad, only I am good, nobody understands, me and I don’t need anything”. But at the same time, “everybody, pay attention to me, to the poor unhappy one”. Well, it is onlу one of the ways of manipulation.
Zh:.. of the system attracting attention.
IM: Of course, a striving for power. A simple question: Can a Personality be involved in this? Of course, not. Because the first thing that a person starts to experience is a constant presence of joy. Well, it is “joy” in our earthly words, after all, we have to associate it with something. But it is infinite, it is boundless, it is what is called happiness. And to gain happiness — it is exactly to gain Life. It is exactly the meaning of human existence here. If a person has lived out a life and has not started to Live, then he is here to no purpose. But there is an understanding, after all, a Personality has not gone anywhere. It has a comprehension, but it is underdeveloped, — as it was a child, so it remained a child. But such excessive activation, I would say, hyper-development of consciousness, simply beats a person up and he becomes… not even a slave, he becomes a zombie: he does everything that consciousness dictates to him. He is just a tool in the devil’s hands, no more…
Zh: Yes, the one who is controlled by the consciousness is controlled by fear, hatred and understanding of inevitability, and lives by patterns…
IM: Of course. But the first thing that he starts to do is to deny everything that is spiritual, or he manipulates the spiritual to his own advantage.
T: Well, yes, both sects and religious cults are created, and people say that “God wants it so”. But, as a matter of fact, the process of enslaving of a Personality is happening. Even if people strive for God, then the system sets up authorities on their path, who simply cash in on people. They cover their earthly interests by saying that “This is pleasing to God”, that “God wants it so” or “God said so”. Meaning, they manipulate it for personal selfish, political or economic goals in three-dimensionality…
IM: How can one use Him as a cover, to use God’s name? Or “God wants it, give it to Him”?! Of course, it is wonderful if a person wants to help his religious organisation. But why say that “God wants it so” if you don’t know God? Why does God need your money? A simple question. Well, isn’t it so?
Zh:...If His nature is completely different.
IM: Of course… He doesn’t have any interest in three-dimensionality, in the material world at all, the more so in three-dimensionality. But some people will be outraged:”How?! After all, we were born here, meaning, we were born here by the will of God”. But if you think that you were born here according to the will of God, then, pray to your father and your mother. That means they are your god. I will explain: if you have come to this world, and have come according to the understanding of your consciousness “by the will of God”, then know that you have come to this world due to desires and efforts of your father and mother. And from the first day of conception, you become spiritualized but not Soul-filled. But you become Soul-filled on the eighth day of birth, and it is precisely thanks to this, you gain a chance to become an eternal Being. One can’t be born chosen, one becomes chosen, and this must be deserved by one’s own work on the spiritual path.
Zh: This is like when they say ”in the image and likeness”, this is a distinction: what “a body, consciousness, a mind” are and what that “breath of Life” is, that You talked about.
IM: That is absolutely right, and what in reality that invisible part is, which was brought here by Angels according to the Will of God. Well, here they mean the Soul, the Personality and that possibility of Life beginning. And really, this is indeed fair; this is the supreme fairness and the highest degree of person’s freedom. He can choose whom to serve: he can choose death, service to Satan and an illusion of importance, or he can become an Angel, meaning an immortal Being, equal one among equals, an integral part of the world of God. After all, it is interesting, and it is fair.
T: The Personality — it is the Spirit which has freedom of choice. For many people, who encounter the Knowledge for the first time, this will be such an information that the one who travels in space, moves around, the one who makes some action, for example, drives a car, eats, thinks — this is not a person, this is not he as a Personality.
IM: In order to find yourself, it's enough to calm down. We have already talked about this. And to watch "your own" thoughts, "your own" actions, in quotation marks "your own" And here again, we will see how thoughts come, we will feel these thoughts, their coming. And we will feel how "I do not want to think about it", but the thought sneaks in, "I do not want to talk about it," but I talk about it. And the one who "doesn't want" — this is precisely the Personality. Here, from this little hook, meeting yourself begins. The paradox is that you will not see the Personality in the mirror. In the mirror, we will see nothing other than temporarily existing, the material shell.
T: Yes, it's good when a person understands and is aware of this. But when spiritual Knowledge is lost in society, then the system, starting already from person's childhood, tries to enslave the new Personality through the primary consciousness. So it imposes that the reflection in the mirror — this is supposedly you: meaning, you are the body, you are the consciousness, and the thoughts are all yours, you see yourself. That is, it gives these directives of material identification so that the Personality focuses all of its life's attention not on its spiritual self-development, but on the false "I" from the consciousness in three-dimensionality, where the power is, the consumption of the system.
Many young parents believe that, say, a child, a baby does not have an attitude towards this world, meaning, he has not yet learned to lie, he does not know how to express those emotions that take root in the older age as patterns...
IM: But this is only until his consciousness has developed at least a little bit. But as soon as the secondary consciousness begins to develop in the child, the first thing that we observe is an egoistic manifestation, manipulative moods. That is, the child begins to live the earthly life. The first thing he does, he adapts. He begins to manipulate. He does not know how to talk yet, but he knows that if he cries, it will be as he wants. Well, isn’t it so? When he is bored, he begins to act up, he gets picked up, that is, someone pays attention to him. And that's where it all begins.
T: Yes, in fact, even a baby already has mechanisms for hidden control of adults — it's child's crying that resounds at such frequencies that it causes discomfort for the listeners and impels adults to act to meet the needs of the child, for the most part, the needs of his primary consciousness, of his body in three-dimensionality. And then, when the child is growing up, what kind of states can be observed in him? It is wonder at something in three-dimensionality, very emotional, funny or, conversely, a very depressed, oppressed state. And the parent, for the most part, is in an arrogant, "super-controlling", anxious, or irritable state. And the voice tone? Accusatory, patronizing, critical, repressing. That is, in fact, training by a secondary consciousness (the dominant consciousness of the parent) of the primary consciousness (the dominant consciousness of the child) is taking place. Well, but if the adults had developed spiritually themselves, then there would be more namely real deepest feelings and Love there, even in spite of provocations coming from the developing consciousness of the child. After all, the Personality would be developing at the same time. Meaning, the parents would be a demonstrable, good spiritual example for their children. Both parents and children benefit.
And so, you are absolutely right that the system, in fact, from the very childhood trains the child to attract attention to himself. And this is connected with the development of primary and secondary consciousness. That means, the system, starting already in the person's childhood, is preparing a slave for itself…
Zh: Well, yes, and it teaches child that the voice in his head, that these programs-artists from the consciousness — this is all him: it's his voice, these are his thoughts, these are his fantasies... I recall the time when you, Igor Mikhailovich, told us that after the primary surge, an intensive development of secondary consciousness begins in children.
IM: That is absolutely right.
Zh: All of this can be tracked in children 3-7 years of age when they begin to exhibit vivid imagination, images, pictures, "I-wants", greed. That is, when the intensive development of secondary consciousness is taking place.
IM: Of course. And then we see: children grow up, one family, children a year apart, for example, one is an egoist, the other one — kind (he is doted on). Who is at fault? This is an interesting question. "Now, the child was born like this." You can't say that they have different upbringing, they have absolutely the same upbringing. Their parents are wonderful. They are raised since childhood with the highest moral values in the human understanding, ethical norms, but a person grows up either a drug addict or a scoundrel, this happens often. And why does this happen? "This is the influence of the street or someone else." Well, no. This is all a part of the development of consciousness. And everything starts from that moment when the secondary consciousness begins to develop.
T: I also wanted to add about the fact that when the secondary consciousness develops, from childhood, the system teaches the child to draw attention to himself. And when you first told us about this, it was very easy to read scientific works on studying the psychology of children with this key of knowledge and, in general, to understand more than what is described there, to understand the real reason for this or that behaviour of the child. It was even easy for myself to answer the questions that the scientists ask themselves.
For example, about the paradox of children's conversations. Unlike adults, for a child, the word is close to the action. When, for example, two children are talking, it is like a monologue together: each of them persistently tries to connect the other to his thought or to his action, but at that, does not aspire to be heard. The child is talking as with himself, as if he is thinking out loud.
IM: That's absolutely right.
T: ...And he believes that everyone else perceives the world around exactly the way he perceives it. A child at this age is in the process of a constant monologue. He is not interested in either a companion’s point of view or in his thoughts. A child, in fact, doesn’t take care about being heard or understood. The key characteristic of his thinking at this stage — it is simply marked egocentrism. A companion for him — this is just a stimulus! Only this visible interest of a companion is important to a child.
Zh: Yes, yes.
T: ...Meaning, to put it simply — “to steal” the attention, a hunt for attention is taking place. It is a common situation when adults talk about something, and a child stands up in the middle and starts asking for something or saying something, acting out, thereby drawing the attention of all adults to himself.
IM: The system first teaches how to gain the attention, then how to manipulate it, then it makes it a constant action, forming it into a certain system. Well, and naturally, as a result of the subsequent development of the secondary consciousness, a child can already actively think up all kinds of situations, imagine objects which do not exist in reality, and claim it as a reality. But the fact is that for a child, very often, these fantasies of his are the same reality as something that surrounds us is for us. It is only the work of his consciousness.
T: Yes, and here is also an interesting thing about the reaction to criticism. In response to criticism by the other consciousness, the secondary consciousness already activates the defence mechanisms…
IM: That is absolutely right.
T:...it actually regards what is going on as a threat.
IM: Already from childhood, the system accustoms a person to an “I.” An “I” as the centre of his egoism, to an “I” as the pridefulness. That is why it imposes such micro-contests, meaning, contests in an argument and the like.
T: Meaning, such contests in an argument, where a small person in all seriousness, by putting in the power of the attention, is attempting to ascertain: who - he or his interlocutor - has a greater ability to impose his thought on the other one. And what does this mean for children? To simply demonstrate once more who dominates over whom. And such children’s behaviour is similar to the behaviour of monkeys. It is a costly, exhausting process for a person and a super profitable one for the Animal mind system. And here is where precious human attention is flowing out to.
IM: Yes, this is correct. As a consequence, later on, a grown-up person has these endless fights in his consciousness for the dominance of his ego in the material world.
T: And what, naturally, will a person choose after such a preparation? He will defend the mythical “truth” from the illusion of the system and decry, already in his consciousness, everything spiritual, because he is simply not familiar with it from his childhood.
Zh: Well, yes.
T: Such a person is not aware that he is a Personality.
IM: For him, the notion of “Personality” is completely different, it is that which is interpreted by the system: it is his consciousness, it is his egoism, his pridefulness, imposed on him from childhood by his own consciousness. This way the system simply produces slaves for itself.
It is clear that the secondary consciousness has to be developed for the communication and survival in the modern conditions of three-dimensionality. But again, without the dominance in the society of the spiritual foundations in the daily life (and in practice, not just in words), the child grows up to be an egoist. And the system makes him accustomed to using his consciousness for, let’s say, gaining personal benefits and for dominating the others. Meaning, this is the lie even to oneself, from the beginning.
Zh: Yes, the system accustoms a person from childhood to lie even to himself.
T: Well, and as a consequence, what happens in such a case? Later, one needs to make tremendous efforts to retrain oneself and change at all. And it becomes clear why people make the same mistakes. Because the primary consciousness does not really want to be retrained and to change, and the secondary consciousness does not change even more so.
IM: One needs to understand that the primary consciousness, as well as the secondary consciousness, is a part of the system. The system does not want to lose power over the Personality.
Zh: That is true. But what is interesting is that the spiritual wisdom also sometimes comes through in children, despite all the pressure of the system. During the first years of a child’s life, the primary consciousness is developing more intensively, and it dominates the secondary consciousness (the secondary consciousness, as we have already mentioned before, starts to develop actively after the primary surge). At this age, a child simply possesses the freedom to a greater extent, meaning, the Personality is not so enslaved by the patterns. That is why sometimes this wisdom comes through. Children at this age are more prone to perception through feelings, to the Truth, which they, unfortunately, do not receive from the adults today...
T: Well, yes, no practice here as well. What do they get at best from their parents? A theory, an interpretation from the secondary consciousness of some elements of one or another religion, practised by their parents, or postulates of their atheistic outlook. And what can the secondary consciousness tell a child about God? It says that: ”God — this is an uncle with a beard sitting somewhere up there in the clouds.” Well, and the child already redirects the search for that which he has inside to the search in the external. And then, all his life, he is looking where there, in the external, the way home is. From here grows the root of all doubts and in the end, disappointments from the illusory images of three-dimensionality.
For example, take that same Christianity. In the religious interpretations of the Bible, in the topic about the work on oneself, the phrase from the Gospel according to St.Matthew is mentioned, saying that “Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.” And here ”be converted to God” is interpreted as a lifestyle change, but again, it is understood at the level of thoughts in three-dimensionality. Yes, there is emphasised that you should address “ with all thy heart”, in some interpretations it is mentioned that the word ”heart” — this is an allegory and in the Bible, it mainly means the essence of the human Personality, a concentration of the soul and the spirit (again, a concentration — this is the directing of the power of attention). It is said that the main cause of human life is written in “our hearts” and that “it is precisely the heart that makes a spiritual decision about the attitude towards God”.
It turns out, that everything is there, only the keys to understanding are substituted, and a person without a practice already doesn’t know what his soul is in reality, what the Spirit is, what he is as a Personality, — the Personality, whose real life has nothing to do with illusory three-dimensionality.
Zh: But when you are aware of this Knowledge, then you also see a grain that was put into these words. That same expression “ become as little children” - it was exactly meant when a Personality is more free from the pressure of consciousness… and is closer to the perception through feelings.
IM: That's absolutely right. The child really is closer to God. Why? The consciousness develops, but less actively, and the Personality is freer, not so dependent on the consciousness. That's why, sometimes children say such wise things, appropriate for an old man who is about to die. Why are old people also more open, although not all of them. They can be bad-tempered, reserved. All his life, he was a wonderful person, but in old age, he becomes too preoccupied because he understands that the meaning of life is not in building a house, giving birth to a child or something else. Here he has lived out his life, there is already nothing ahead, but he has not comprehended the main thing. And what is the main thing? And it turns out, the main thing — it is precisely to start Living. You were running all your life, and for nothing, in vain.
And life rushes by, we already touched on this in the programme, like one day. Same as yesterday was for you (I am speaking figuratively, for people), so will all life pass. It will become yesterday literally today. In this lies the problem - the illusion of time. It seems that there is a long time, "but there are still years ahead"... And you have to live so that every day, every moment, you are ready to leave, but for you, it must be a reward. But you can not accelerate this process; a person doesn't have the right.
Zh: And yet everything is simple: if you made the decision to Live, then just start Living right now. If you put it off for a moment — consciousness will surely take advantage of this.
IM: There is such a concept (we are touching on it here) as the concept of "serving the world of God." And here is where it starts — what is service to God?
T: Yes, many people today understand this only from the position of a consumer... They live inside themselves by the consciousness, and not by the spirit; they live by three-dimensionality.
IM:... Yes, this is they're sitting, repeating the prayer, and what we started the conversation with — they live to the dictation of the consciousness. And with the help of consciousness, they talk fast or read the list of their wishes to the Lord God, putting in praising odes to Him at that. Well, such as, you know, they are addressing Him like earthly parents, they are used to asking parents: "I want a car" or "a doll", or something else.
Zh:... To gain personal benefit.
IM: That is quite right.
Zh: Meaning, a consumer attitude towards God.
IM: This is the worst thing possible.
Zh: That is, totally just the opposite of a distorted concept of service…
IM:... And notice, the most interesting thing here is many say that "if you get sick, pray and you will recover." You prayed and, yes, you recovered. But what did you ask for? Something material. And here, based on the commonplace understanding of the division into Satan and God, into two components, you prayed with the consciousness "to god" and your body healed. So what god sent you your health based on a prayer? Is it the God Eternal? No. It turns out here precisely that your health, like your body and your consciousness, is in Satan's power. He can take away your health, and he can give it.
The Lord will not take away your health, and even more so, he will not send you sickness. What for? But again, the consciousness says: "But you are a child of God, created in His image and likeness. And He constantly watches only you every day." He has nothing else to do. "But He is God. He is Almighty. He has many eyes; He watches everyone... And He has a lot of ears. He listens to what you're thinking about, what you're talking about." But this is known — what you are thinking about, what you are talking about — to whom? Again, to the same one who is called the Satan. And why does he know what you're thinking about? Because these are his programs, this is his world, and these programs, which are implanted in your mind like in a computer, are written by him as well.
T: Yes, everything in the system is dead: there is simply no Life, there is only illusion and games of consciousness. Some artists of consciousness play the role of patrons, others — petitioners. But where are the people themselves in this? Where is the Life in them?
If you made a decision to Live,
then just start Living right now.
T: You look at all this obscurantism in the world and... it is just human foolishness to the dictation of the consciousness.
IM: Some time ago, I came across a handwritten recording of the meeting, at which clever men tried to count the number of Angels in the Infinite World, the Boundless one. It's a paradox. The mortal consciousness of several people tried to count the infinite and boundless number of Angels. But I'm still under an impression from this. What is the meaning of all this? What kind of megalomania does the consciousness have?! And why does a person, guided by consciousness, also liken himself to God or consider himself equal to Him? Such people have only requests towards the Spiritual World, but there is no payback.
T: Just a list.
IM: Well, most often, fear arises also, meaning, fear of realising that He exists. When the Personality is active, the person feels this. Fear arises, fear of death. And a person already seeks at least to attain Peace, in order to avoid suffering. He is trying to somehow reconcile with religions, with representatives of religions, but again, these are all games of consciousness. Well, what can you do, that's how the world is.
T: Meaning, the consciousness deceives a person. In reality, the consciousness - it is only an intermediary between the Personality and the three-dimensional world. But it can never act as an intermediary between the Personality and the Spiritual World. Because the dead knows only about the dead.
IM: Absolutely. This is what makes a human being dual. On the one hand, one is tied to three-dimensionality, to the material world. But on the other hand, there is also a Spiritual nature in a human being, which belongs to the Spiritual World, and helps a person to become the one, who, for example, in religion, is called an Angel, meaning, an immortal and spiritual Being. But notice also - an incorporeal being, and this is also not unimportant.
IM: After a person’s death, let’s say, not a single consciousness can enter the Spiritual World. The consciousness does not perceive the Spiritual World at all. And those people, who practice seriously and have experience (not faith, I emphasize this, but the experience of contact with the Spiritual World), they have an understanding, even at the level of their consciousness, that something is happening. Well, to even describe correctly with words in three-dimensionality what they feel, just how the Personality perceives the Spiritual World — it is extremely difficult. Again, there comes “happiness,” all these usual epithets, expressions of something wonderful and boundless. But we can not tell about it in detail. Though at the level of the Personality, such people understand and know this well, they are happy, joyful, but they can not describe it.
T: We were talking about the duality, and it’s interesting that in a lot of religions, especially, in the Orthodoxy, such a notion is found as “inner and outer person.” Regarding the outer person, basically, it’s all clear, everyone equates him to a body. But the inner person, the person, which… I know it even from personal experience, that if I had not come in contact with the Knowledge, if I had not had the experience through the feelings, the understanding that the Personality is Spirit and one can communicate with God only in this way, then, most likely, by the inner person, I would have understood that which is not voiced, simply some thoughts inside in the head…
IM: That is absolutely right.
T: Essentially, the work of the primary and the secondary consciousness.
IM: That is, again, that primary consciousness would be understood, meaning, the consciousness of the primate, which controls the new (secondary) consciousness,
T: Of course, either pride from the consciousness of the primate or thoughts from the secondary consciousness. Because mostly, it is the secondary consciousness that performs whole little scenes here with its actors: how your search for God should be carried out in three-dimensionality and how your spiritual path should look like as imagined by consciousness. And here, the most important thing is to understand and figure out who you are in reality.
IM: Right. Secondary consciousness - it is indeed very active, and it is mainly what we consider ourselves to be. If we simply, let’s say, calm down and observe how thoughts come to us. Just close our eyes, relax and observe who is giving us these thoughts. At first, we hear arguments; we see that something is happening, some images appear, meaning, the life continues to go on. The question is who is observing these images that appear? It is exactly the primary consciousness.
At the moment when we are falling asleep, but when we are not asleep yet, and the activity of the consciousness still goes on, it is at this moment exactly that we can observe the activity of the secondary consciousness. And it is thanks to such observation that we can realise that we have two “I’s,” but not the true “I.”
And once we have learned to observe this process, we can also simultaneously learn to feel, meaning, to perceive the Spiritual World through the deepest feelings — this is the perception of the Spiritual World through feelings. When a person develops spiritual vision, then, as we have said, a solid table or a solid cup — it ceases to be solid and to have such a form. The illusion disappears. And we already see all this as some sort of clots, field structures, banally, but up to the sixth dimension. And the Soul, it is beyond the limits of the sixth dimension. And consequently, everything that is connected with it — it is also within the threshold, let’s say. The Personality leaves for the seventh dimension consciously, when it merges with the Soul. I would say, it is on the verge, meaning, very-very close to the Spiritual World. But when we already identify ourselves, meaning, get free from the illusion of matter, from the system itself, from these consciousnesses (we can observe them, we can control them), then here already appears, let’s put it this way, precisely not an understanding, but the experience. And the Personality starts to develop, moreover, quickly and actively. “What does it mean to develop?” — here many will ask the question. Perhaps, I will clarify a bit. In reality, the human Personality practically does not develop in the modern world…
T: Yes, there are too many distractions from the consciousness in the modern world. And people do not even set a goal to become liberated themselves from the control of the consciousness and to create better conditions for the spiritual maturation of the other generations.
IM: That is absolutely right. Tell me, who takes care of the development of their child in the spiritual sense? Those images from the various religious publications, the conversation about God, what is this? This is again how bots talk about God.
T: Yes, young parents simply teach their child that which they themselves were taught. And if there is no personal spiritual experience, if they do not multiply the spiritual Love in themselves, if their perception of the Spiritual World through the deepest feelings is not developed, then it is only empty talk and nothing but teachings of the theory from the consciousness, but without the practice of multiplying the Love by the Spirit in oneself. Of course, they would probably be happy to do it another way, if they only knew how. But, they were taught by the consciousness, to simply believe and hope, but not to live in the here and now by what is real, what is innermost.
IM: Again we return to what: “Do I believe or do I not believe?” The belief — it is not the Knowledge. The belief — it is a hope that maybe there will be something. The Personality can perceive God; the consciousness can not perceive God. The consciousness can only believe or not believe. The belief only theoretically allows for the possibility of His existence. But the Personality will always be for God and the consciousness - against God. And here, it is precisely the primary consciousness that plays the determining role. If the primary consciousness is controlled by the system or the secondary consciousness, then the Personality is doomed. If the Personality controls the primary consciousness — it can study the systems itself from the outside. This is the only way to study the system without damage to health, without damage to your consciousness, let's say it this way.
T: And this is a key point exactly for those, who with the help of personal experience or scientifically are trying to study the consciousness. Because otherwise, to study the system while being in it...
IM: ...Well, experience shows, we have already talked about it, that it does not lead to anything good when you study the system while being in the system. We can only observe and receive that information which the system itself will allow us but not more than that. But this will always be beneficial for it, not for us as a Personality, but for it (as a mortal being) as opposed to us (as a potentially possibly immortal being). And here the question is: “Why potentially possibly immortal?”
The Personality, when it becomes free from the slavery of consciousness, from matter, and cognizes the Spiritual World, then it, drawing closer, becomes a single whole with the Soul, it becomes that which is now called an Angel. In ancient religions, it was called differently, but the essence does not change because of it. A person becomes the one he has to be — an immortal Being and, naturally, after the death of the body, he, being already an Angel, can not die, he becomes liberated as a matured being (figuratively speaking, like a butterfly from a cocoon) and goes over to the Spiritual World. It does not mean that he flies away somewhere or something else. It is for our consciousness that it’s necessary to fly somewhere or move around. The Spiritual World — it is Endless, Boundless and it is everywhere, simply a little bit higher, let’s say it this way.
And the consciousness — it simply disappears when the Personality becomes free. But this is not beneficial for the consciousness, because it identifies itself as an “I”, and it is not beneficial for the system itself. Because the consciousness (pardon me for such a primitive comparison ) — it is like a milking machine for the system, which gets connected to the cow (the Personality) and through it, the milk (the power of the Personality’s attention — the powers of Allat) is extracted as a food product (of the system). The consciousness — it is nothing else but a tool for the existence of the system itself, or the Absolute, or, as people call it, the Higher Mind, it is an enhanced way for its nutrition, which gives it life. That is why the system is interested that the Personality does not become liberated during its lifetime.
T: Igor Mikhailovich, many people are asking themselves such a question, are wondering, what is reincarnation? What is the rebirth of the soul?
IM: The rebirth of the soul, or the so-called reincarnation, happens after the death of the physical body. This phenomenon takes place provided that the Personality did not become liberated; then, the Personality merges with the consciousness as a single whole.
What is the rebirth of the soul if we talk about it in a simplified way? When the Personality was not developing, it could not merge with the Spiritual World, let’s put it this way, it is non-viable, then the consciousness remains, it identifies itself, it continues to work as that same milking machine, but it turns into a bit of a different state, together with that which we call the soul. A reincarnation takes place. And all this energy-informational structure passes, figuratively speaking, from one vessel (the destroyed body) into another (the new body, into which a soul enters and forms a new Personality and, consequently, as an antithesis of the Personality, a new consciousness is also formed). But since the soul did not leave this world (it is being used, the reincarnation is happening), then, naturally, the previous Personality and those two active consciousnesses, which suppress, also remain.
And here a person experiences in this state that which is called “the torments of hell.” He experiences them more at the level of the consciousness than the Personality, at the level of the primary consciousness. Notice, it is simply easier for the secondary consciousness here because there is an understanding of this state. And at the level of the primary consciousness, there is precisely pain, sufferings and so on, and all the unpleasant sensations.
People may ask: “How can there be pain if there is no body?” I would compare this to that effect, when an extremity is missing, for example, a person does not have a leg, but the toes on the foot are aching (this is called “phantom pain.”) And this is also similar to… people who experienced strokes, when they were in the body, but could not contact this world. They do not even have a perception of the body as such, but a clear awareness, an understanding of anything and everything, remains. This is exactly what the state of the subpersonality is. Meaning, everything that you have accumulated during your lifetime, all that active stuff that you lived by, it will accompany you during, possibly, many reincarnations, until some personality appears which becomes liberated, and then all the structures are destroyed or, to say it in modern language, until there is a full annihilation, meaning, everything is erased entirely.
The Personality will always be for God,
And the consciousness — against God.