T: And what about people who step on the path of true service? IM: As for people who step on the path of service, true service, after all, they never use these powers for themselves. Why would they need anything for themselves?
T: Now, we would like to briefly touch upon the subject of altered states of consciousness… As of today, in the world, a lot of both clinical and experiential material has accumulated regarding altered states of consciousness. And it’s already clear that a human experiences and abides in various states of consciousness every day. Well, for instance, such altered states of consciousness that are advantageous to consciousness — these are the state of wakefulness, the state of sleep, reactions of anger, the state of panic, the state of dreaminess, those very hysterical states, the states caused by alcohol and drugs consumption, hypnotic states. Meaning, these are those states of consciousness which people encounter most often in three-dimensionality. But there are also altered states of consciousness which accompany spiritual opening — those are meditations, prayerful states, spiritual practices. Well, generally speaking, there are altered states of consciousness that are beneficial to a person when it comes to development of his Personality, and there are states advantageous to consciousness, ones that precisely can even cause harm to a person. So, what happens in the states that are advantageous to consciousness? There is an active influence on the Personality, and consciousness deprives it of a chance of self-identification. Well, so, for example, if a person is in a state of rage, he is not able to identify himself as a Personality, he is simply under consciousness’ control.
T: This is very interesting and important information. You understand how stereotypically people’s consciousness will react to all this. Because consciousness, as a rule, what does it do? It reacts stereotypically with a squall of criticism and emotional indignation to everything that is new to it, that is disadvantageous to consciousness itself, so that its control over the person wouldn’t be destroyed. All the more so, it is very aggressive towards everything Spiritual. After all, even having heard this Knowledge, consciousness will be attacking people. IM: …Consciousness is always criticizing, especially if something is connected with true Knowledge… If consciousness hears anything about what’s truly Spiritual, it always rears up.
T: Igor Mikhailovich, in order to facilitate precisely a person’s understanding of himself, understanding of his states: how does consciousness perceive itself, and how does Personality perceive itself? IM: Human consciousness always perceives itself precisely as a limited Self, as something isolated. Say, how does a person perceive himself – I? I, my own self… That’s all. And it is so capsulated, closed. Whereas, when a Personality perceives itself, it perceives itself as boundlessness and a part of the whole. This is also an interesting point.
V: The mechanism hasn’t worked, so it makes no sense to activate the same mechanism which doesn’t work. Once we have noticed this – that’s it, the system has no feed, a person does not give attention. He either has resolved the situation with humour, or has interacted with a person, they have resolved it. That’s all. Meaning, it has not managed to… Bang! – that’s it, the system has retreated. When consciousness switches on, at some point it starts to toss in a little appraisal, “This one is not right, this one does it wrong. And that one seems stupid in general…” or something else. On the sly, it gently, insinuatingly creeps in like a snake in the grass. And thus it gradually redirects this vector.
T: Igor Mikhailovich, when you first told us about the primary and secondary consciousness, this understanding helped a lot in practice during the day, in work on yourself, in a more in-depth understanding of how the mechanism of that same auto-training and meditation works and in general, how much spiritual practice differs from them. Although at the beginning of the programme we have already mentioned these tools, but could you elaborate on the understanding of the work with these tools in the light of knowledge about the primary and the secondary consciousnesses?
IM: The world is diverse, but the system has very few patterns. So, actually, "the system is attacking," that is, what does it mean? Thoughts come, all kinds of distractions come (literally the same thing), after all, they are patterns, right? But the practical examples – now, this is what’s interesting… T: Yes, that is absolutely right. When people share their experience – it, of course, enriches one with certain understandings at the current stage of the spiritual path. It gives one an opportunity to learn more about the tricks of consciousness, to improve the vigil in oneself. Because you here and now, in practice, learn and cognize your true nature, you learn to feel other people, to separate the grain from the chaff, to separate the truth coming from the deepest feelings from the lies of your consciousness. And that is why any experience – it is only beneficial as a practical opportunity to understand what your consciousness is, who you are, where the illusions and images created by your own consciousness are, and where the truth without the masks of the system is. And what in general is globally happening in the world, if one looks at it not through the prism of consciousness, but perceives holistically from the Spirit.